Flying one of the kids on an IFR flight plan with decent VMC, she
asked to circle some landmarks in Minneapolis/St. Paul Class B. I
found myself saying "cancel IFR, request clearance to remain in class
B with traffic advisories for some sightseeing". No problem, I
remained on same squawk with the freedom to navigate as I requested.
But would I have been able to remain IFR to circle those landmarks if
I asked, e.g. "Request clearance to circle XYZ at 2500, right turns"
and said nothing about altering the flight plan?

Mitch Gossman

In article >,
(Mitchell Gossman) wrote:

> Flying one of the kids on an IFR flight plan with decent VMC, she
> asked to circle some landmarks in Minneapolis/St. Paul Class B. I
> found myself saying "cancel IFR, request clearance to remain in class
> B with traffic advisories for some sightseeing". No problem, I
> remained on same squawk with the freedom to navigate as I requested.
> But would I have been able to remain IFR to circle those landmarks if
> I asked, e.g. "Request clearance to circle XYZ at 2500, right turns"
> and said nothing about altering the flight plan?
>
> Mitch Gossman

As long as other traffic doesn't conflict, the controller will let you
do anything you want while IFR (subject to terrain clearance and maybe a
few other details).

Since ATC is providing the same kind of separation services to VFR
flights in Class B airspace as they do to IFR flights, the odds are if
he was able to let you do it VFR, he would also have been able to let
you do it IFR.

Mitchell Gossman > wrote in message
om...
>
> Flying one of the kids on an IFR flight plan with decent VMC, she
> asked to circle some landmarks in Minneapolis/St. Paul Class B. I
> found myself saying "cancel IFR, request clearance to remain in class
> B with traffic advisories for some sightseeing". No problem, I
> remained on same squawk with the freedom to navigate as I requested.
> But would I have been able to remain IFR to circle those landmarks if
> I asked, e.g. "Request clearance to circle XYZ at 2500, right turns"
> and said nothing about altering the flight plan?
>

Yes.

(Mitchell Gossman) wrote in message >...
> But would I have been able to remain IFR to circle those landmarks if
> I asked, e.g. "Request clearance to circle XYZ at 2500, right turns"
> and said nothing about altering the flight plan?

Yes! It's like any other deviation, except it's usually more fun.

I always tell the passengers that I can ask, but ATC might need to
deny the request.

With that understood, I request it this way, "I'd like to remain here
(or "over XYZ") for about 5 minutes for sightseeing."

I've always been happily accomodated, once with a "After maneuvring
fly heading XXX," and always with a "Advise back on course."

We approve some pretty huge deviations over the Grand Canyon
on a regular basis. Some do a couple 90 degree turns, some
will do a 90 followed by a 270, etc. Traffic or losing a spot
for LAX is about the only reason we turn them down.
Recently I got turned down for what I wanted to do, and I was
VFR! I couldve easily just cancelled flight following but
I was inside the NY Class B and they had a plan to put me
in sequence. They'd been pretty helpful up to that point so
I just did as they asked and squeezed between a bunch of
jets into TEB.
If you're going to do one deviation after another over multiple
locations, if the controller has any traffic at all (not necessarily
conflicting with you) he may draw the line somewhere. You
might be able to tell by the freq congestion if that is the
case.

Chris

"Mitchell Gossman" > wrote in message
om...
> Flying one of the kids on an IFR flight plan with decent VMC, she
> asked to circle some landmarks in Minneapolis/St. Paul Class B. I
> found myself saying "cancel IFR, request clearance to remain in class
> B with traffic advisories for some sightseeing". No problem, I
> remained on same squawk with the freedom to navigate as I requested.
> But would I have been able to remain IFR to circle those landmarks if
> I asked, e.g. "Request clearance to circle XYZ at 2500, right turns"
> and said nothing about altering the flight plan?
>
> Mitch Gossman

"SeeAndAvoid" > wrote in message et>...

> Recently I got turned down for what I wanted to do, and I was
> VFR! I couldve easily just cancelled flight following but
> I was inside the NY Class B and they had a plan to put me
> in sequence.

You cannot cancel Flight Following while in class B airspace.

-Robert

(Brien K. Meehan) wrote in message >...

> I've always been happily accomodated, once with a "After maneuvring
> fly heading XXX," and always with a "Advise back on course."

.... and for good measure, I did it again today over Niagra Falls.
Buffalo just wanted to know when I had the falls in sight, and how
long I was staying. "Clear for the visual Falls, maintain 4000,
advise back on course." :-)